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"Non-excusable" trading behavior

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Jul 12, 2011 03:02 pm
#1

Mensajes: 939
Member since: 21/04/2011

One of my friends gave his money to a money manager to manage funds. Initially he made good profits as my friend told me. But recently he said that a big loss was made by a very "not understandable" behavior of him. I am writing his feelings about that behaviour of his money manager.

Traders, sometimes, do not understand the price action of the markets. For example a trader is short on a currency because he anticipates a negative news and his expectation becomes correct but the currency behaves opposite of what is expected. You MUST get out right away in this situation. Because at this stage you do not have any idea of whats going on. You can close your trades at much much lower drawdown and simply step aside. A drawdown of around 2 to 3% per trade in such situations is excusable but 10% draw down is a "no-excuse" situation.

Stick to your rules

Jul 14, 2011 06:53 pm
honeric01 User

Mensajes: 77
Member since: 09/06/2011

Well sometimes things like this happen to even seasoned traders, as long as this is not what he does always, you shouldn't throw away the baby with the bath water.

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Jul 15, 2011 05:52 pm
illiterate User

Mensajes: 561
Member since: 21/04/2011

Yup. I agree with honeric. If the behaviour is just a "one-time" incident then I think it is possible. It can happen and in forex trading even professionals sometimes make mistakes. But if the trader has continuously made similar mistakes then you r right that it is non-excusable.

There can be other factors like previous history + market conditions etc.

https://www.fxstat.com/widget/link?t=medium&c=1&s=25892&o1=growth&o2=drawdown&o3=monthly&o4=equity

Jul 16, 2011 05:27 am
Richde User

Mensajes: 114
Member since: 11/01/2011

More or less I agree with you on your points, but I truly believe if somebody becomes a professional/seasoned trader he/she is not allowed to make mistakes. It's a typical beginners' mistake not to cut a losing position, averaging-in, and wait for the market to reverse. When somebody becomes a trader, and for example gets a job at a hedge fund or a prop trading group, even one mistake could be fatal and millions of dollar can be lost. I am just trying to tell a professional trader always cut losing positions without any hesitate or feelings - otherwise he/she is not a professional trader.

Keep it simple stupid

Jul 16, 2011 05:45 pm

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Member since: 21/04/2011

Richde, that was exactly what I am saying. You got my point. That a trader making such mistake cannot be a pro trader. Its a fatal mistake. My friend has already left that manager. I have asked him to join auto trading service here and choose a proven professional trader.

Stick to your rules

Jul 17, 2011 12:43 pm
Champ User

Mensajes: 711
Member since: 17/05/2011

I do not agree. How can you say that a professional trader in forex cannot make mistakes. Maybe he is analysing the behavior by his own way. If he is making profits most of the time then these losses are of no value. We have to check overall performance of a trader and not specific performance. Professional traders have their own trading style. It is your thinking style and your trading way. But if you think that you r better than your money manager then why dont you try your own trading method.

I think all sorts of losses are excusable unless the strategy is really stupid e.g. martingale.

http://www.fxstat.com/widget/link?t=tiny&c=1&s=24959&o1=growth&o2=drawdown&o3=profitfactor

Jul 17, 2011 07:26 pm
Richde User

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Member since: 11/01/2011

Champ, I guess you missunderstood me. I am telling professional traders (usually they manage a lot of money) cannot make mistakes. In trading we call mistakes what based on psychology. They have stick to their rules (do NOT break them, it's considered as a serious "mistake"), follow the trading strategy, and follow a very strict Risk Management. If they don't do, they are consecutively making mistakes. 

Between, to be clear:a loser trade is not a mistake. It happens, and cannot be avoid.

Keep it simple stupid

Jul 19, 2011 11:02 am

Mensajes: 939
Member since: 21/04/2011

I do not agree. How can you say that a professional trader in forex cannot make mistakes. Maybe he is analysing the behavior by his own way. If he is making profits most of the time then these losses are of no value. We have to check overall performance of a trader and not specific performance. Professional traders have their own trading style. It is your thinking style and your trading way. But if you think that you r better than your money manager then why dont you try your own trading method.


That is not what we meant. A professional trader can make mistakes but there are some mistakes that shouldnt be made and those mistakes can easily be avoided. As I said that you must close a trade when you dont know the behavior of market. It is better to close at lower drawdown level than regretting later. In forex, it happens sometimes that you do not understand market behaviour. In these situations some so called Pros try to be extra intellegent and their clients loose money.

Stick to your rules

Jul 22, 2011 06:00 pm
Jogi User

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Member since: 06/06/2011

I think you made mistake in choosing a money manager. You must ensure that you choose the right person. His experience + trading history is the most important thing in analyzing performance. If everything satisfies you then choose the person. In this trading history you also know about maximum drawdown. So if that money manager is not loosing below that drawdown level then you must not be worried because it happens sometimes. Maybe it is a very illogical mistake for you, but he is looking at it from a different point of view. If he is a pro then he is analyzing the market much better than you.

In my opinin you must trust him. Just because he made a mistake, you cannot blame him because its Forex where nothing is predictable.

http://www.fxstat.com/widget/link?t=wide&c=1&s=26883&o1=growth&o2=drawdown&o3=monthly&o4=equity

Jul 29, 2011 02:42 pm

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Member since: 14/07/2011

I agree 100% Jogi! When chosing a money manager, it is important to analyze past performance and understand the drawdown levels that his/her system(s) have experienced in the past. From there, you should be able to better understand and feel comfortable with the everyday trading by the money manager. When you experience those drawdowns, as long as it is consistent with historical results and within his system then the investor has to understand that it is a poor period for the money manager, but that doesn't mean it's time to completely abandon and move on. This is a common mistake I see in new investors, they join a managed program and don't stick with it through the times of drawdown. I offer managed accounts and the investors that stick with me, profit in the long run. Nobody can guarantee future performance, but what managers can do, is trade a proven system that works and stick with that system and an edge should be gained on the market.

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Jul 29, 2011 02:52 pm

Mensajes: 14
Member since: 14/07/2011

my appologies for the multiple posts....i'm not exactly sure what happened there! 

[erm]

Account link to invest in HighMark Forex http://pamm.hotforex.com/managerdetails/?l=58974123512456235432614&usermode=0&refid=8971

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